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Old 13th May 2011, 13:41   #11
MotionMan
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

Gosh, I've never heard of the Roco / Fleischmann set up, but they look familiar. Thanks for the links. Unfortunately I can't see the video on my 1998 home PC but I looked at it on my office PC and I could see but not hear it on that. I'll have to get some ear phones or watch it on my mate's Laptop. I've downloaded the instructions so I'll have a read. Many of the other DCC companies also do wireless versions to UK specifications. I find it very puzzling that NCE do not.

I didn't know about the power supplies 'extra'. I'll have to watch out for that.

Well, at last, the DCC Fitting workshop I've kept booking onto since March has got the minimum amount of students, so next Friday I should be getting started with some 'hands on' experience of all this CV business, and hopefully I'll have made a decision on which command station to buy by then.

Thanks very much for all your help folks.
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Old 13th May 2011, 15:18   #12
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

I'm guessing, from the look of the aerial, that NCE use VHF wireless frequencies which could interfere with those in the UK and that to comply with UK laws they would have to design a completely new system.
Did you get my PM about the cheapest suppliers of the Roco/Fleischmann systems I found in the UK?
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Old 13th May 2011, 17:43   #13
TCWORLD
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

Yeah, NCE use 915MHz which is illegal in the UK, as it is near the frequency used for GSM mobile phones. As far as I've read, NCE have no plans to make a version that is legal in Europe.

Interestingly, all they would need to do would be to move it to 868MHz and it would be fine - Not that much of a change really.
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Old 15th May 2011, 08:08   #14
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

Poliss - I didn't realise you had to check your In box on the AMR web site for PMs. I didn't get an e-mail about it, is that right? Should I have got an e-mail?

Anyway, thanks for that. I do need to actually get 'hands on' experience of these things before I buy. I might take a trip down there sometime. Does the shop allow such demos?

I was at an O gauge group meeting yesterday and got my hands on the NCE. I do like the choice of button and roller wheel control. They weren't able to show me how to control two locos at the same time just by the click of one button because it has to be programmed in.

I must say, it continually amazes me this lack of concern for realistic motion that I keep on encountering. Whenever I get my hands on the controls and try to get the locos going in a realistic fashion I feel pressurised to 'just get it going'. They think something's wrong with the loco because it's not moving straight away, and likewise they look at me odd if I don't bring them to a sudden stop.

The locos didn't start as realistically as I've seen DCC locos start. They hadn't done anything with CV2 and hadn't changed the speed gradations from 28 to 128. I was told it's not necessary. Is that right? I would have thought that changing it to 128 would give a better start and stop, and you've always got the fast speed jump button if you want to get them accelerating faster once they've started.

TCWorld - that's interesting. Yes, I thought it might be only a case of altering the frequency. Well, if they're not interested in selling their products over here I won't buy one of their products then. I'll see if I can e-mail them. When I was using the NCE yesterday with the wire it was not so bad, but it would still be more usefull without it, especially for my proposed set up I think.
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Old 15th May 2011, 17:02   #15
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

Don't know about the email notifications MotionMan. Haven't really looked into the account settings.

Decoders usually come with 128 speeds steps as the default setting. When using speed tables certain decoders, according to the Loys Toys guide, can only use 28 speed steps while others can use 128.

Hadn't realised that with the NCE system you needed to programme another loco into the stack before you could swap between locos with only one click. With my Multimaus in standard mode I only need to press the up or down arrows to change between locos. In Library Mode, which is what Roco call the stack, I can store up to 64 locos. At present the NCE PowerCab can only store 2 but is due an upgrade for storing 6 locos in memory.
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Old 15th May 2011, 21:00   #16
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

The ProCAB can store numerous locos. There is a Recall Button which you press and then use Select Loco to choose one. You can then press Recall to choose to add another, or press it repeatedly to cycle through selected locos.

There is a setting the the CAB setup which allows you to select the max number of locos in the recall stack.
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Old 16th May 2011, 10:19   #17
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

Poliss - I wouldn't be surprised if these guys' decoders had the ability for 128 speed steps but they had actually changed them to 28. They were not interested in using the advantages of DCC's realistic running other than the ability to run more than one loco on the same track without isolation sections.

I was told that you could run two locos at once with the NCE controller and all you need to do is press one toggle button, but they didn't know how to set that up.

I've been reading the instructions of other DCC controllers aswell and I'm rather interested in something stated in the instructions of the Digitrax system, quote:-

"The throttle knobs on the DT402 use “encoders.” They give very smooth, fine speed control. In 128 speed step mode it takes four complete rotations of the knob to go from stop to full speed."

I've never seen this in other instructions. This sounds like something I want but am I being blinded by science? Is this something most controllers have anyway but Digitrax are making a big thing out of it?

You can also change the small throttle knobs on the Digitrax controller for bigger versions .... excellent.
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Old 16th May 2011, 15:20   #18
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

I've taken a look at the NCE Power Pro manual. According to that, at the moment, the maximum ammount of locos in the recall stack is six.

Joe Fugate, who is very well known in the USA, has made some videos comparing DCC systems, such as NCE and Digitrax. He likes the NCE system. Note that he only reviews systems widely available in the USA.
You can watch the videos here. http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/m...-good-bad-ugly

Reading the manuals is always a good idea, but it's always worth searching for what users say about a system. Think of the manuals like washing powder adverts. Have you ever seen one where they say they don't wash whites whiter than white? But on careful reading of the small print they aren't suitable on woolens, silks, etc. :-)
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Old 16th May 2011, 20:18   #19
MotionMan
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Default Re: CV2 - How Does it Work?

Poliss - Thanks for all the trouble you've gone to. I'll see if I can get some ear phones and have a watch and listen to those videos in my lunch break at work tomorrow. I'm still wondering about these ecoders though. This is what I've found about the Digitrax throttle knobs, quote:-

"The DT300's throttle knobs themselves are radically different from anything you've probably ever used before. The throttle knobs are click encoders rather than potentiometers. What this means to you is that the throttle knob rotates more than one turn from 0 to full speed. The number of rotations is based on whether you have the system set up for 14, 28 or 128 speed step operation. Encoder Knobs give you incredibly fine speed control & when you select another loco, the throttle knob position does not change the speed of the new loco selected. No more rushing to adjust the throttle to match the loco's speed! ...... You won't believe the slow speed performance!"

Except for the word 'click' this sounds like just what I want. If I can get a throttle that will also help out with a real nice smooth start / stop action aswell as the decoder and motor and Back EMF etc. I'll be a happy chappy. Anyway, I will find out on Friday when I'll hopefully be able to get some practical experience.
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